An Evening With Shadow Work - Denver’s Next Best Thing

Myles Dynowski

On a rainy Thursday evening I met up with Shadow Work members, Rafael Nava, Jospeh Szlanic and Ben Zickau at the Aggie Theater in Fort Collins, CO, to discuss who they are as a band, and where they want to go. With their newest EP, “Imago”, having just been released in August of this year, Shadow Work offered no lack of excitement nor passion to continue growing as a band.

The name “Shadow Work” itself has a cool, mysterious vibe to it. For readers who don’t know, in psychology, “shadow work” is “Working with your unconscious mind to uncover the parts of yourself that you repress and hide from yourself.” Bassist Joseph Szlanic said that the name originated from drummer Ben Zickau’s interest in psychology at the time. He also added that the name was on a shortlist for some time, but the group decided that not only did the name flow well, it also just made sense. Guitarist/vocalist Rafael Nava said he was originally unfamiliar with the term, but through the good and bad of living together and being friends, it felt very fitting.

The atmosphere of the music itself hosts indie and psychedelic tones and styles of playing; that comes from the band’s ability to think and play outside of the box.

Zickau said that he likes to start grooves quietly at first, and build up to playing something that he wasn’t able to play maybe a few months prior, providing himself a musical challenge.

Nava added that a lot of his playing style comes from him feeling he has room creatively in the band to just play around and find what sits right with him. “I was in a five-piece band previous to Shadow Work, and it was the first time I ever got into pedals or electric guitar. I always played acoustic guitar, never electric. In that band I felt more contained with what I had to do. And now in my position I realized I’m filling a bigger space and I had to get into the idea of playing with certain tones or electric settings to fill the space. From there I just loved the way certain tones/setting sat with me and I wanted the music to feel like a trip and I wanted it to feel like it was wrapping around you.”

Szlanic added, “I think we have to wear a lot of hats musically when we’re playing a song. So there’s times when I really wanna be in the pocket, but then there’s also times when I want to be doing more rhythm guitar elements, or even doing a lead-esque type part. So there’s a lot of room to play and it helps that these guys are really good ear players and can just pick up on something and work with a lot of different elements. In other bands I’ve never actually had this ability to be this creative. I see my instrument as more than the traditional bass aspect for sure.”

Myles Dynowski

October 5, 2023

In an interview you did with Westword in May of 2022, you mentioned you found a lot of your inspiration within local music, rather than big name bands. Does that still ring true these days?

Nava: Oh definitely. Local is a hard term, but all the bands we’re playing with around the United States makes it feel like if anything, that local pond has just gotten bigger for us. It’s interesting to see the ties in the different ponds. I feel like when a band is touring and trying to go out on the road like we’re doing, it’s kind of like you’re kind of building the bridge for certain people. To see what I see in other bands - like Pink Fuzz is a perfect example - to see what they’ve been learning on the road is interesting. And you don’t ask them directly, but you can kinda see if they’re picking up some flare in different places. There’s just a lot of killers out there too. Not real serial killers - well maybe, but like really great musicians in the weirdest crevices of the United States and you’re just like wow - you’re out here? It’s cool.

Szlanic: I agree with that point too. There’s so many differences within the theme of the music scenes around the country, but there are also a lot of similarities, so it’s really cool to connect all of the similarities. It’s cool that way.

Zickau: There’s a lot more connections that already exist than we were aware of. Like with the more regional touring we do, this world’s getting way smaller. In a good way.

Nava: It makes the world feel a little smaller, which is much appreciated.

With Shadow Work being a three person band, do you think you feel any pressures more intensely than you would having four or five members? Or would you say that your chemistry with each-other keep things chill enough?

Szlanic: I think it’s both. When there’s only a few pillars in the band, I think there’s more room to be creative and to play around and to fill space, so that’s nice. But at the same time, there’s more attention on each specific part, so it really has to stand on its own. It has to be very powerful. I feel really blessed to play with these two guys because I feel like we can kind of be as creative as we want, or do anything we want and I think it still kind of works out.

Zickau: There’s more space to fill in general. Like I think mistakes or inaccuracies are definitely more audible in a trio. There’s more space to fill, and there’s a greater responsibility to come up with a part that fills, or doesn’t fill space. Everything good you do is more noticeable as well as everything bad you do. So it kind of just raises the stakes when fewer people are in the band.

Nava: I feel like I’ve been in a lot of positions musically. I was in marching band and concert band, so I’ve been in big pieces where you can just hide. There is a nice groove and flow when you’re in something that big, but like the guys are saying, when it’s stripped down to a unit of three, it does have to be a little more thought out. Every part has to be so intentional. Every part has to have meaning. It has to go somewhere to some degree. I’m lucky to play with these badass players because they let me fall in this groove. It’s like working with depth. It’s so simplistic. It’s very beautiful to have something that simple, yet still so impactful, that still gets you somewhere. It’s just interesting to work with.

Zickau: Another thing that’s cool about playing in a trio is that you know when the song is ending quicker. It’s a lot easier to decide on something [whilst playing].

For your upcoming 2023 Halloween tour, which stop, or stops, are you most excited for?

Zickau: For me, New Orleans and Memphis; I’ve never been to Memphis.

Szlanic: Chicago would actually be pretty cool too. That’ll be our fist time touching all the way up there. We’ve played with a lot of bands from that area by happenstance, so we have a lot of friends up there, but this is our first time actually dipping our toes in that area.

Nava: I’d say Champaign. Champaign’s a cool area, the people there are about it. It’s like another Fort Collins essentially.

Would you say there’s any venue you’ve played that’s been your favorite?

Nava: I know where we’re playing tonight’s gonna be up in the top. Whysound in Logan, UT as well.

Zickau: Substation in Seattle was really cool

Szlanic: Whysound was a crazy spot. House shows or underground shows are always great. That’s when you see more passionate people show up who really love music.

Nava: I would say a closet would be a dope venue for me if the right crowd was there. It really matters so much. I’ve played basement shows with 50 people crammed and those will always be some of my most memorable. The energy at those shows are what sparked this fire within myself to make me actually want to do this.

What is your guys’ favorite aspect of being in Shadow Work?

Szlanic: Musical freedom. I talk to other bands and they’ll ask what my solo stuff is like, and I’m like what are you talking about? I don’t have to do solo stuff, I’m able to do whatever I want already [in Shadow Work]. So definitely the musical creativity we all have.

Zickau: For me it’s about being better than we were. I feel better as a musician and as a person.

Nava: They’re hitting it on the note for me. I’ve played on the side of streets as a little boy and always tried to express myself. But I feel like this just gives me the avenue to express myself the truest and it makes me so excited. Like I’m even excited to practice. These guys make me have that drive to be better than I believe I ever had for myself.

What is each of your biggest musical inspirations when you’re writing music?

Szlanic: For me, I realized and people pointed out that my bass playing is very melodic and that there’s a lot of harmony. I love singing and vocals, and that’s how I work through a lot of my writing is through things like humming or singing and then trying to play something similar to that. I love Stevie Wonder, I gain a lot of inspiration through some of the stuff he’s done. He had such a cool way of taking deep musical knowledge, and then applying it in such an impactful way and making things that were very unique and out of the box and so digestible for people.

Zickau: I’d say my main inspiration is almost metaphysical, but it can present itself in a lot of different ways. It’s not really like my top three favorite artists inspire me in every way, but I try and learn from their examples of technique and balance.

Nava: I remember being little and trying to dance like Michael Jackson and look like James Brown or David Ruffin, so as much as I want to say that I don’t try to do those things on stage, I truly have been waiting for this moment for a minute. I think they express themselves very well.

The first project the band released, “Robben Island”, seemed partially to be a test of the bands perseverance . Nava added, “I would say it was the birth of all of this of course, but it was like really seeing if we could work together. We were living in a two-bedroom apartment with four people in total at the time, and it was just practicing twice a day, everyday. No shows even in sight for us. But we all had the foresight and knew we’d eventually end up in a situation like we are now, so it was just like always about being prepared. It was a stressful environment in a sense.”

Szlanic added, “My bed was in the living room and his bed was in the kitchen, literally. During the pandemic as well. So it was intense. Every band I’ve been in, the reason why they’ve broken up is because the people couldn’t get along. But we have worked through so much stuff, we’ve been in screaming matches and wanted to fight each other. But now, our communication skills are so much better and that’s what I think will keep us together and give us that longevity as musicians and co-creators.”

Nava also added, "They say diamonds form under pressure and I feel like that’s what it was. A lot of pressure to see how much we can grow as musicians, but as people. We all have conflicting, big personalities, so it’s like how do we make space for each other?”

Comparing the experiences from the bands first project, “Robben Island”, to their most recent release, “Imago”, Nava adds, “The confidence was definitely there. At the same time, we were also touring a lot and playing a bunch of shows, so there was that new challenge of trying to create under a new pressure or stress that we never had before. It’s been a good experience. I’m more excited about what’s next to come. I also think it’s [Imago] a better representation of ourselves as well.

Fortunately for us listeners, Shadow Work seems ever-evolving and hungry for more. Don ’t miss Shadow Work on their upcoming 2023 Halloween Tour!

Special thanks to

Zoey and Kevin Teiken

Alexander Cain